Episode 11 – Gretchen Lock Talk

Colin talks about the legend and history of Gretchen’s Lock


Before we investigate anything, we like to delve into the background and history of the place. Colin is our expert at that and has done a great job finding out the truth behind Gretchen’s Lock.

If you aren’t sure what we’re talking about, Gretchen’s Lock is part of a system of locks built in the 1800’s in Pennsylvania. There is a story behind one of the locks that involves the architect’s daughter dies and is buried in the lock. Find out more about the history and our plans to investigate.



[00:00:00] Stephen: All right. Hey guys, welcome. Another episode, I think this will be I we’re recording these at a time, so I think this is getting up to seven or 8, 6, 7 or eight somewhere in that six, six.

Okay. Don’t forget. Ron’s talk. We’re going to make that an episode. Speaking of the talk last Saturday, we were the three of us Colin was working, but the other three, we were down in green county historical society for the haunted paranoid. Convention conference, they had little in their society.

So Ron, you spoke to there and you had a table. Tell us your back

[00:00:30] Ron: from it. That was my first time there. And we were at an historical site that used to be a poor house. And now it was converted north very nicely restored historical center that, that kind of encapsulated the history of that particular county.

From the time, at its inception, there was a lot of native American things. There, there was relics from the French and Indian war, a few things, even from the revolutionary war and the civil war. And it really walk you up throughout history and it was a very interesting place. And some of the nicest people that you would want to meet it wasn’t very well attended.

For one for a few reasons, number one is that COVID is, we’re just coming out of COVID right now. And this was one of the first events that you could go into without wearing a mask. Number one there was also other events in the area at the time, and I was told that there was a prom going on that day as well, too.

So there was a lot of negatives against it, but I will tell you the people that were there were very voracious audience, they were very interactive. They wanted to be there. And sometimes those are the best kinds of audiences that you want. So even though it was sparsely attended it was really one of the more fun lectures that I’ve given in a while.

People did have questions. People were honestly wanting to be there. They were very wide-eyed about it. And I think that it can only get better and I trust that’s what’s going to happen. I think that we’ve probably made some pretty good friends there. And I think going ahead that it can only get better.

I truly do.

[00:01:53] Stephen: There as muted your N your, you did a good talk on witches fit the whole thing very well. And I loved the whole event because it was that mix of some paranormal stuff being talked about and people have experienced things, but also that history we were enjoying looking at the items, Jason, especially the big clock and all that.

So these are the types of events that we’re good at because this is more of the type of thing that kids and families may come to. Or maybe. Kids and

[00:02:25] Ron: families to start coming to me. I think that’s the idea as well, to some conference that you go to, you have speakers up there that give a litany of sightings that have happened.

They don’t really get into the bones. They’re up there and they’re talking about an experience. And that is a very personal thing that we’ve talked about in the past. And sometimes those experiences don’t translate to an audience, but whenever we’re at a place such as this, that’s why I had such a good time.

There is that people go with. That we’re going to be based in some sort of historical element. We’re going to be some sort of precedent. That’s going to take place there. And I truly just think this was a great venue to have it. They had on this very old barn out in the, out, in the field it was inexpensive.

A family could eat there on premises, which is almost never possible when these kinds of events especially if take children there they made it affordable. They made an interesting, and even if you did not work, if you weren’t under arrest in the paranormal, this was still a great place to go.

And at the end of the day, I promise you all, you’ll get something out of it one way or the other. Yeah.

[00:03:31] Stephen: Yep. All right. Gina you you were enjoying the day with us. What were your thoughts and feedback?

[00:03:36] Gina: I like go into these types of things. Wasn’t familiar with green county, that the history alone, that area has blew my mind.

And that was something that with the way they, they had the museum, this house at one point in time, this place that held not criminals, way word people and things like that. And each room was set up with the different bits of history. It was amazing to me. The whole entire area of the barn.

The house I had such a good time and I liked it. Then it was very personal because sometimes you go to these bigger conferences and it’s not quite so personal and you can’t, I was very comfortable to be able to talk to people and ask the questions that I wanted to ask. So I had a really good time

[00:04:20] Stephen: and I that’s one of those places too, that I would love to go back with you when there’s not so much activity, because others were talking about all the objects they had on display and the sightings they’ve seen and things they’ve experienced.

So I’d love to see with you there.

[00:04:37] Gina: And I think Ron said it too. And I think this is that place has so much to offer, not even from a paranormal point of view, but the history in it alone. I would love to see that place have more activity, meaning people coming in and touring the whole entire area and, cause there’s.

It’s just too much history there to not, tell the world about it.

[00:04:58] Ron: That’s right. That’s right. And it’s a good place for people from Western Pennsylvania. We’re, Eastern Ohio.

[00:05:03] Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. We were only two hours away. So that’s not unreasonable of a trip, takes a lot of people that long to get the Cedar point.

[00:05:12] Ron: So as we move forward with our show and as they move forward and really developing the right guide on how they want to go forward with these particular talks, I think it will be a good idea to bring some of those people on to talk about not only the paranormal lectures that are going to be having, but also about the place itself and its historical place itself.

[00:05:31] Stephen: The Medea is the last two that talked think would be particularly good.

[00:05:35] Gina: Who was the gentleman that was emceeing the whole thing. He was very loud. He had a lot of information he knew a lot about.

[00:05:43] Ron: Right. Yeah. He is the, he’s the one that manages the site saying, I believe he’s actually even an archeologist.

I think that he’s he has a degree in this and he’s there to really make that place a stable historical hallmark in that area

[00:06:00] Stephen: and the building across the street, that’s abandoned. That was another dormitory like housing facility. It definitely looked that’s one of those, oh my gosh.

That place is haunted. Look to it, we kept telling Jason to go see if the doors are open, the doors are open.

[00:06:18] Ron: See, I think in times like this, I should probably bring my youngest son who’s eight. And just tell him, buddy, I’ll get you a toy at Walmart. If you let love, if we let you in the window and you open the door and let Steven en

[00:06:31] Stephen: we’ll give them one a Collins

[00:06:33] Ron: books. No, he wouldn’t love that. He would absolutely love that. That’s right. That’s

[00:06:37] Stephen: right. For the next topic for the night in about what two, three weeks we are going to go out to Gretchen’s launch in Ohio, do some campaign and we thought it’d be a good idea to invest.

None of us do some research on it first and find out more about the place. And Colin has looked up a whole bunch of things on it. So Colin, give us a little bit about why it’s, the locks themselves, the legend, the history, and what you found out about.

[00:07:04] Colin: So for those of you who are not familiar because Gretchen’s locks only a local legend.

It’s not really known outside of the general area of Ohio and PA beaver Creek state park is a state park on the border of Ohio in Pennsylvania. And in the 1830s, there were a series of locks, a canal being developed there. I cannot I looked into the history, but I cannot remember the exact reason why they were building it there.

But the project was eventually abandoned in 1838.

[00:07:35] Stephen: Due to lack of funding calling. It was, part of a whole lock system that goes, yeah, it was a lock

[00:07:40] Colin: system. They were putting through the project in beaver Creek, specifically, they had a series of 50 ish blocks in beaver Creek, state park.

What became beaver Creek state park got abandoned in 38, 8, 18 38 because they didn’t have an, a funding over time a legend developed because you could actually go to these locks and walk through them because they were never flooded. You could walk through them touch the walls, interact.

It’s really cool to see these, this piece of history that oftentimes we don’t get to see because locks remain flooded after they’re not being used for the most part. So it’s actually really cool to see like this disused canal but over time legend developed. This the daughter of the architect Edward Gill, who actually was the architect of the whole lock system.

So according to the folklore that has developed, he and his family were from one of three places, either Holland, which is the oldest version of the legend Ireland, which is the most common version of the legend, or just generally somewhere in Europe, depending on what you read the information from. Edward came over in 1834 to start work on designing the lock system and his family followed in 35 from wherever over in Europe that they happen to be from while they were on the ship, his wife died on the boat and was.

Gretchen there only a child and his daughter was distraught by this. And when they landed and got to the locks, she fell into a depressive state, eventually she depending on the version of the story she was taken advantage of by one of the Workman or she fell in love with one of the Workman, depending on what version of the story you look at and became pregnant with a child.

Now, the pregnancy throughout the whole pregnancy, she was ill and they were worried about how the actual delivery was going to ha how it was going to be when the baby was born. It was still born and she died during the delivery. So Edward, while still having a couple of years left of this project that he has to finish.

Decided to store her in the wall of lock 41. Which is something that they actually did. It was a storage of bodies until he could transport her over to the motherland to bury her in the mother soil, because he never got to do that with his wife. He eventually did that, but on the journey back home, the boat was racked and they all were lost at sea.

That’s all the folklore part. According to the stories, if you go to lock 41 and say some variation of rich and I have your baby or Gretchen, I know where your baby is, or just say her name multiple times. Or sometimes if you repeat the phrase three five times you will hear shrieking in your head occasionally reports of a white apparition, right at the corner of your vision has been reported as well.

Some people have reported hearing sobbing in the lock. But this is, this has been something that ghosts ghostly phenomenon has been reported in that lock since at least 1916, which is the earliest version of the Gretchen story that I could find. It was a in a little pamphlet of ghost stories that was distributed locally.

It was actually cool. But. Turns out as far as I, or anyone could tell Edward Guild did not have a daughter or even a kid. His wife, Mary was alive with him during the building of the locks and 38 when he was supposed to have been leaving actually was a year after the locks development had been ceased.

They lost funding and the project was abandoned. Now I could not find any evidence that he was actually from anywhere in Europe. I couldn’t actually find where he was from. I have little bits and pieces of his writings, but most of that was pleading to the shareholders to keep funding the project.

But I couldn’t find any mention of a Gretchen and I couldn’t find any mention of a of him being from anywhere but Pennsylvania, which is where most of the other engineers working on project were from. One more thing to note is that several places I had seen, but I couldn’t find the origin of this claim suggested that Gretchen was actually the name of a work donkey that was involved with the hauling of stones that died and was buried in a lock.

And I would also like to point out that you go to what lock 41, and it was practice if you kept somewhat stored someone in a lock like that to write on the stone that was moved to put them their their name and their date, like a gravestone, but there’s no evidence that it was there. And also according to a a report by, oh God, give me one sec.


I have all the stuff up right here.

According to Carnegie Carnegie public library, there was no evidence that any of the stones had been replaced to make room for a body even temporarily. So really what it comes down to is it looks like a lot of the like death, part of the story is not true, which actually makes the development of the folklore even more interesting in my opinion,

[00:13:16] Gina: They built a lax for like economic reasons, to bring trade. And there was a mill in the area too, or a couple of mills in the area that were producing things. And so did they ever complete the.

[00:13:32] Colin: Not those ones. They’re not, no, not those ones there. And I was only really looking at the ones in beaver Creek. I wasn’t really taking the time to look into the rest that were being built at the time.

Just the ones in beaver Creek specifically. Like Gretchen’s, that’s really what I was focused on. Yeah.

[00:13:49] Ron: Yeah, there’s the walks there’s. There was in Pennsylvania, there was a lock system that stretched from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, Ron Erie. They had the lake Erie canal. That’s you know, that occupied not only Pennsylvania, but part of upstate New York as well too.

So the canals were. Before the advent of the the locomotive Pennsylvania had a canal as early as 1821. But they didn’t last long, by 1850 the locomotive as made its debut. So we’re only talking about the heyday of a canal for, just, a couple of decades.

It wasn’t very long lasting, but Colin part of that story as well, too. What’s so interesting about it is that when arrive first heard the story that I, this the first time I’d ever heard about the pregnancy before, I always hard to choose a young girl that came over and succumb to some sort of disease.

Whether it be smallpox or the Spanish flu or something like. Something typical American, these were people, like you said, these are people that were coming from a distant place. So there was that romance to it. And as soon as they hit the shores of this promised land, things start falling apart.

It’s like the grass is not always greener on the other side of the ocean. And I think it might be a little bit of a warning to that, to some people as well, too. But what we get in Rutten’s lock is we can see how folklore and legend slowly develops. And through that, all the game of telephone, it comes to something completely different from any Genesis that it had in reality.

[00:15:14] Stephen: Yeah. I’m I,

[00:15:17] Colin: I just wanted to say, I did forget to mention that the pregnancy was a later addition. So originally yeah, the earliest versions of the story was that she got ill and then I think. Because around the fifties was when the women in white trope really started taking over a lot of the like travel legends.

I can’t really prove this, but I’m pretty sure that’s when the shift happened and the baby and the other aspects of the story were added to the legend because it fit what was commonly thought of as like one of the quintessential ghost archetypes. And, but I would like to say this.

One of the only, if not the only women in white story, I know of that has ties to a lock. Most of the time you hear them with bridges or roads. I don’t know of any other stories that are associated

[00:16:09] Stephen: with law.

[00:16:10] Ron: Yeah. It says, I guess it’s part of the transportation and some sort of through system. And, we look back in antiquity, the Greek enrollments, I believe the places like, Crossways, we’re very supposedly very haunted.

This was the paranormal some place. So here in America that doesn’t have a, an ancient history in regards to you European involvement, it seems like, our roads now become the place of hauntings, or like you said, bridges, and this is just a reminder, one time late, Gina had said about the mill being in that area and how important, the moving of material along the water’s ways work.

That’s just a little snapshot on what it meant to have a canal around you and the kind of, hauntings that developed from it as well.

[00:16:51] Stephen: And I love this story and I love what you found out about it, calm because it shows where you have some truth and actual history. And then what it becomes with the legend, the urban legend, the mythology, and just my speculation listening to it.

It sounds like the locks shut. So I would guess most of the people in the area didn’t know why that they suddenly went, huh? Nobody’s working on the locks. They’re all shut down. Somebody at the pub says I heard Gretchen died. Who’s Gretchen. Gretchen was a donkey. Oh, somebody else has they said, Gretchen, the daughter died.

And it just snowballs from there to end. Now you would get people that say, oh yeah, this is exactly what happened. That his daughter died. She haunted and they accepted as truth. And this is how we get any of these, which again, not only shows how lots of our legends can come about, but also why it makes it hard to believe them without looking into where.

[00:17:55] Ron: And if, if you’re from a, if you’re from a a language that’s not English daughter and donkey sound pretty close to,

[00:18:02] Stephen: yeah, we should go do Google translate and Danish or something. They might look

[00:18:09] Gina: like the donkey story.

[00:18:11] Stephen: So here’s my thing though. And Colin and I talked about this too. So there has been a persistent, we’ll say rumor that it’s haunted, that there’s something there saying the repeated word, that’s bloody Mary that’s all over, but people have reported strange things have reported sightings things they’ve seen Ron, you even went and got a pickup.


[00:18:34] Ron: absolutely. Yeah. I’m fascinated with the history behind these things. And I learned a lot about walks, but I here in Western Pennsylvania, Hours of being of, to make sure that nobody was ever going to capitalize on them again. So a they build their trains right over the lock system.

So we really don’t have any remnants of the locks remaining anymore because they want to completely obliterate them. And then of course the flood of 1881. Blows most of all, these walks out of the water, my areas. Yeah. So I wanted to go see the block and whenever I go to beaver Creek I had my daughter Willow with me and she was a, this was a few years ago.

So she was probably about eight years old at the time. And as a long walk back in the woods, we walk along beaver Creek and you can hear some splashing out the water. And it’s dark at this time. I think we probably went out about midnight. We got, we arrived at our campsite late, but I wanted to see this lock and I wanted to see it at night.

So like any good father, I just drive my daughter around. And as we were walking, she said, I think there’s something falling us. And I said no, you’re making this up in your head. But we got probably within about a hundred yards of the walk and she just comes to a complete standstill and she says, daddy, I’m not going anymore.

There’s something out here with us. So I picked her up and I carried her the other a hundred yards and I sat her down the walk and I looked at the thing and I said, this is fantastic. I said, now I want to take a picture of you. And I’m taking a picture of her and behind her are two glowing eyes. Now this let’s put it this way.

To me, it looked like two glowing eyes inside the lock. There’s really nothing else there. So it looked like these two eyes were coming out, could be a lot of different things, but to sell a good story, they were two glowing eyes that were emanating from the lock itself. But these kinds of things probably happen to a lot of people down there.

This is a pretty wild section. My daughter felt she’s under the paranormal. She just a little kid and she felt as if something was following her she got to the point where she thought it was ominously approaching us and all upon us. And then when a ride took her down to the lock to try to do leave any kind of fears that she had, we had photographic evidence that she was not alone there.

So look from a skeptical point of view. It could have been a lot of different things, but just putting all the events together, there are so many coincidences that go along together that it makes it a good story.

[00:21:01] Stephen: So with that also

[00:21:03] Colin: Bigfoot reports in the

[00:21:04] Ron: area too big foot. That’s another thing.

That’s. So whenever I was there, I grew up since block. I was there to speak at a big foot of that at the pioneer. Yep, exactly. Because there’ve been so many big foot sightings there. And then whenever I started to research the area more and more, I found out that there’s not only big foot sightings, but there’s also a lot of UFO sightings.

So whatever is going on there, it seems as if this place is very right for paranormal activity, for whatever reason. And I think it’s like what you said to Steven earlier that it’s an urban legend that continually takes off it evolves, and each culture is going to interpret it within their own sphere of existence.

You know what I mean? And so flip becomes fashionable. So now we have to have big foot as part of this legend as well too. UFO’s are out there. So now UFO’s were involved as well. So it makes it like this, a myriad of paranormal activity going into this place where maybe there was nothing to happen there.

[00:22:05] Stephen: What here? Here’s my. Thinking on this. So we know obviously Ron, that you could have got some glow bugs in the background. It could have been a possum that was asleep when you got there and reflected there’s no city, no cars, no traffic. So you’re not ruling that out right away. But let’s say, okay, those are definite possibilities.

And we have no way of proving one way or the other one. It is. And unfortunately the picture it’s too hard to tell. So Colin, I also talked about this things like COPAS. So we have this legend that people believe in that we’ve pretty much said it’s not true, but does the manifestations, the apparitions, the feelings is that manifesting and becoming reality because so many people believe it and they go to this area thinking and believing that something’s there.

Is it creating the less. Based on what people’s

[00:23:02] Ron: Brian’s thoughts are. Yeah. I thought a lot about TELPAS because something, some interests me very much. And it seems like these areas, Western Pennsylvania, Parksville, Ohio the Pacific Northwest that have such such a history of these kinds of reports.

Our Topaz manifestations of the human psyche that becomes some sort of phantasms or could it be that our thoughts are our energy and somehow are stored within the geography of that area. These are all very philosophical questions, but I often wonder why certain areas are more prone to these places than others.

And it’s very possible when we talk about things like certain types of hauntings like residual hauntings, that it seems to be improved on the land. And I’ve often wondered, could it be that these things are important on the land don’t only hauntings, but also ideas and thoughts because of the stone in the area is just prong to act as something that captures and holds it as a battery.

[00:24:01] Stephen: G

[00:24:03] Ron: eight year old girl to my daughter. And to me it happened, you see what I’m saying? We experienced a haunting, we not only experienced, but we’ve got photographic evidence of it. And that’s really what matters to people at the end of the day.

[00:24:17] Stephen: Do you know you were going to make a comment? I

[00:24:19] Gina: just a couple of things that, to touch on all that, I think the energy.

From the people originally being there to try to build this and brick come over from a country that they knew their whole lives to this strange world and trying to, make a life and a living. So their energies, are, they’re not saying that they’re haunting it, but it’s just in general energy, the forest, the woods, the running water, all the energy there, I think that could contribute to what’s going on there as well.

[00:24:45] Ron: That’s a good point before, just, I just want to make one more touch about the historical point of view. Anytime you build anything there’s danger, inherent danger involved and Ruxin may not have done it. But I assure you that people died making this lock, putting this lock together. So we have these kind of impressions as well.

That become part of the lens as as part of the part of it as well. So if we are talking about energies there, Steven, and I think this kind of program needs to talk about the conjectures of of pulpits and the idea of the environment, hoping energy and manifesting as goes through whatever.

I think that we do need to talk about all these kinds of things, because we have to really time to have a a very thorough picture. We just can’t say that, we did a research called it as research, and this didn’t happen. What we need to say is things paranormal things are still happening there.

Things that could not be explained are still happening there. These are the reasons why it could be happening.

[00:25:46] Stephen: Yeah. Again, we could go out there 3, 4, 5, 10 weekends, and nothing will happen. That’s right. But this is my thing, Gina, we’re taking Gina. We know she’s experienced things and just from my experience, whatever she vibrates in or attracts or however it works she seems to draw things in.

So I’m curious if somebody like that would, so I guess, is it she experiences and has a better chance of experiencing something here because of her makeup, her chemistry, her energy, her vibration, her radiation, whatever it could be, or is there a synopsis in her brain that are firing different or open?

Whereas me being, maybe I’m more closed minded, cause I’m more analytical. I don’t experience a witness or see things again. If I don’t see them, does that mean it doesn’t exist or is it just that my brain

[00:26:42] Ron: can’t see it? Yep. I like that idea. And as, as much as I’ve been researching the paranormal, I am utterly convinced that the experiencer plays a part in the witnessing of something.

It’s almost as if there is a circuit that has switched open, allows for these things to happen. So you and I might not go out there, but somewhere that has, predisposed to substances, they may be the conduit that’s needed tool while the other side to at least show itself moment.

[00:27:13] Stephen: Gina, I know you’ve told us about your experiences in the house and things you’ve experienced, where you live. Have you ever gone to someplace that people say has been haunted or experiences or something paranormal and you’ve experienced something being there?

[00:27:30] Colin: Yes.

[00:27:32] Stephen: Tell us,

[00:27:32] Gina: I don’t know if you guys are familiar with it, but I look, cause I grew up in Cleveland.

And there was there was a house I remember as a kid, we would go past it. It was called Franklin castle. I probably shouldn’t say this part. We might have to we went in there a few times. So yeah, we would enter a couple of times on our own as young kids. But I’ve went back when I was older a couple of times and Franklin’s castle definitely had some weird vibes. There were some things going on in there. Again, that was still a part in my life where I wasn’t quite sure what I was seeing and feeling, but, movement out of the corner of my eyes, stuff like that.

In that aspect. Yes, that was definitely a very a very interesting place. I actually have gone to a police station that was no longer in use when I was younger. That was haunted or said to be haunted. And there was some weird things that happened in there too. But that’s really my only two experiences with actual places that were deemed to have paranormal activity.

[00:28:25] Ron: Have you ever experienced.

[00:28:26] Gina: In like outside

[00:28:28] Ron: in nature and natural environments.

[00:28:31] Gina: Yes. Very much yeah, definitely in a few different places. But again to always err on the side of caution, you’re out there in the middle of a wooded area, it could be any number of things.

It could be animals, first and foremost, when you’re in a wooded area and you’re out in a clearing where, there’s nobody else, but you and or the couple of people you’re with and you see something step out of the woods. You’re like, oh, there were only three people in our party.

Who’s that fourth person coming out of the woods right now. That happened when actually I used to camp out at Osage in Ohio. I don’t know if that anywhere in that area was ever deemed haunted, but I just, I was used to stuff happening. So whenever it did or it does, I just, oh, there it is.

It’s happening again, type of thing. And I’ve tried just to make this clear, I’ve tried to not invoke, like I wanna see it, it’s like that woman who’s a medium. I can’t make it happen. Like these, whatever it is, spirits whatever you want to call it, they, you can’t, you’re not making them.

You are not like I demand to see you now because now I want to see you. It doesn’t work like that. At least not for me. I can’t make that happen and I’m not going to disrespect anybody on the other side and another realm, another dimension, I’m not going to disrespect that. So I don’t demand anything from anybody.

[00:29:48] Ron: That’s very nice. Yeah. I’m excited to see it. I’m excited just because this brings another element into it. We can be as scientific as we want, but it really takes a we’re going to get to the heart of the supernatural. We’re going to have someone out there that can almost sense it and experience it in different ways.

So Gina, I’m going to be excited to have you along, but I will tell you if anything creepy happens, I will run and I’ve done many times. I have no problem with that. As much as I want to get to the bottom of things, I am not a stupid person and I will.

[00:30:23] Stephen: She’s got new knees. So she might,

[00:30:25] Gina: Steven, every time we watch some of these paranormal shows.

Why don’t they go after it? And I’m like, no, you gotta run the other way,

[00:30:33] Stephen: but let me counter that though. Let’s go on the assumption. Gina has whatever that draws things in. I think with how I made up, it’s almost the opposite. It almost pushes it away. It doesn’t let it in as much. I think if anyone, I probably have more shield just naturally against somebody. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’ll get possessed and that’ll be the end of our podcast.

But I, obviously if there are people that bring things in there’s people that push it away too. And that said, I want to have several cameras and things to set up and roll and have us take pictures. Multiple, film is cheap nowadays. Video ends still we’re still beginning.

We’re still in the early stages. So I, we’re not gonna have all the tech equipment we want or the ghost hunters has or anything like that. But I want to set up some cameras. I want to set up some things overnight. I want to try and keep some things running while we’re just looking around and have a couple things going.

So if there is something, maybe that’s my thing. If we can catch it on more than one camera at once. Th that would be much harder for us to fake and people it’d be harder for people to say, oh, that is fake.

[00:31:48] Ron: Sure. I understand. I understand. I’m excited guys. I’m excited. Hey, don’t tell anybody. Don’t tell anybody.

This is just between our group here. Not any listeners that we have. As much as I like to go out, looking for Bigfoot and stuff like that this will only be the third time I’ve ever kept in my life. Oh, true story.

[00:32:10] Stephen: First hint. I’ll tell ya. Make sure you have a nice big blowup mattress when you’re 15, a little pad or something under you is fine.

When you’re 50, a blow up mattress is necessary and make sure you have enough, a thick layer of blankets, a sleeping bag underneath you as much as on top, that will definitely

[00:32:30] Ron: keep you warmer. All these

[00:32:32] Colin: things are going to have to Take away your cryptozoology card. Like you can’t be a, cryptozoologist only camped a couple of times,

[00:32:42] Ron: but I have a beard and I have the hats and all that I need.

[00:32:47] Colin: So you’re just cause playing as a crypto as

[00:32:49] Ron: well as a cryptozoologist that’s right.

[00:32:53] Stephen: We got it. We

[00:32:53] Colin: got to get you like a punch card, 10 camp outs

[00:32:56] Stephen: until you’re recovered.

[00:32:58] Ron: I had this conversation with Linda Godfrey actually. And she said that she understands my point of view because a lot of people don’t take her seriously either because she does not wear a hat or have a beard.

[00:33:12] Stephen: I

[00:33:12] Ron: think, maybe it’s the werewolves though for the whole thing too. Be a. But I will tell you what I, I have rough times and some pretty shady looking libraries of that counts.

Psyche. I appreciate that.

[00:33:30] Stephen: Now, also down there, if anybody’s interested and wants to go camping and check things out, they have a pioneer village down there, which is a recreation village. And I know you’ve done a talk there before Ron. I’ve been there a couple of times the Scouts, they have a working mill, they grind flour.

They have a couple of buildings. So I’m curious. I never looked before, but I’d like to go visit when they’re open. See if they have any literature on the history of the area, because that’s part of our mission. Also, the legend in supernatural into the real in

[00:33:58] Ron: history, tying it all together.

Connecting the dots. See what happens. Absolutely. Nice to talk to some of the people that work there as well to hear if they know of any legends or they’ve seen anything that, because

[00:34:11] Stephen: this stuff is oral history, you got to talk to people that are in the

[00:34:15] Ron: that’s. And as I say, all the time, his fruit does not exist in a vacuum.

[00:34:20] Stephen: Unless you sweep up a blizzard of Spanx.

[00:34:24] Ron: That’s right. That’s right. I like that. I like us even. I like how you went there. Yeah. Thank you.

[00:34:31] Stephen: Colin. Is there anything else? Cause you said you did hours of research. Is there anything else on the lock or the area that you found interesting or that could be something other paranormal reports or anything?

[00:34:44] Colin: If there’s a picture claim to be. Next to a stone wall that was claimed to be like Gretchen, but it was claimed to be taken a year before cameras that could have done that were invented. And so it was posted to Pinterest by a ghost researcher in Ohio who didn’t do as much actual like research as much as made like artsy photos of different subjects of ghosts like hauntings and stuff, which is interesting, but it got taken out of context and ran with, by a bunch of articles talking about like the top 10 ghost stories of Ohio.

And it kinda got out of hand and claimed as Gretchen. And it’s not, it was someone having fun with the legend making an art piece. And I wanted to be clear about that. If you do see a picture of a girl standing against a Stonewall into like the brown bleached out looking photo, that’s not,

[00:35:44] Stephen: it’s not a real photo.

And that’s a good point. Cause we talked a couple of episodes ago about. The fakery and things like that. Colin showed the picture and looked at it and we went that doesn’t even look old. It looks like a filter. It looks hurt too sharp and clear. But even to that point, there are people that are like, oh, this is Gretchen, look at it.

So again, you’ve got to take it all with a grain of salt and think

[00:36:08] Ron: On this show, whichever it is or six or seven show, I think I’m going to coin a phrase here. This will be the first time it’s ever been used. I think that from now on, we’ll have to put a TM at the side of it and use it at LinkedIn.

And every chance that we get, I don’t call this as much as a hoax as I would call it. Paranormal cat. That’s right. I started, so it’s a way of using things to weed, somebody in, and it’s actually there’s truth behind it, but it’s not the actual truth that you’re seeing. How about

[00:36:42] Stephen: yeah, got it.

Okay. So we’ll use that, but I don’t, from what Colin said, I don’t think the original person who posted it, met it for any nefarious purpose. I think unfortunately, other people. The wrong way. They didn’t stop a minute. Look at it, read it. Think it, of course, this is the country that still has the national Inquirer as consult newspapers.

[00:37:06] Ron: I think there’s a lot of things out there that happen unintentionally. There’s not supposed to be hoax, but then it comes apart of our collective culture and also automatically this stuff. It’s great because Colin showed those great UFO’s or whoever bought those UFO’s up over in Nebraska or whatever they are.

And when we’re talking about, as kids seeing these on programs to show that this is the proof that extraterrestrial life is coming in, this guy was probably thinking these spit, these pictures that were, hanging, dangling off of his his fears and everything. ’cause a lot of peoples saved things, seen these things, but they can’t prove it.

So they recreate it and put it out there as factual, not so much to hoax, but to prove, to prove to themselves and to others that they were not, they weren’t really crazy, they want to have some sort of town. And that’s the reason why I think paranormal catfishing comes into play.

[00:37:55] Stephen: I like that we’ll make a shirt. That’ll be,

[00:37:58] Ron: yeah. And we can do a whole series, a whole series.

[00:38:02] Colin: We’re talking about the bachelor parallels thing, the name of the series,

[00:38:07] Ron: paranormal catfish.

[00:38:10] Stephen: For every time we go to an investigation to a shirt as we’ll have, Gretchen’s locked 20, 21. And we can get a picture for it.

And nine no.

[00:38:18] Colin: Do the cryptic collective tour, 2021 and on the back a list of every place we went.

[00:38:26] Ron: That sounds pretty cool. That’s really cool. Call them. I won’t get into that.

[00:38:32] Stephen: All right. Before we go with the episode, don’t hang up yet. Guys. I got something after we’re done with the episode, but anybody got anything else with Gretchen’s lock?

We will do an episode. Of us being out there because we’re going to record things so we can compile it all into one episode. Even if it’s a little disjointed, we’ll try and make it. So it’s easy to listen to. Maybe we can just talk while we’re out there and record some things. But then maybe we’ll probably do an episode post investigation and offer the pictures and video up for anybody that wants to look at them through our website.

And we’re gonna try and get the raw video, raw pictures on edited, not compressed and anything like that, as much as we can. So hopefully

[00:39:11] Colin: I got one more thing to say. There’s another haunting at beaver Creek. Supposedly it’s got way less history and no one else cares. No, no one really cares as much about it.

Lock 39, it’s known as Jake’s lock supposedly a caretaker of the lock. Was struck by lightning while making his rounds along the top. And according to the sightings on certain nights, a stormy ones you’ll see him with his lantern. So it’s like a spook light essentially. I just felt a neat dimension that there isn’t nearly as much literature on it.

And as far as I know, there’s no real evidence that anyone named Jake worked

[00:39:46] Stephen: there or died there.

[00:39:48] Colin: So it’s worth mentioning, but there’s not nearly as much of a backstory

[00:39:54] Stephen: behind it. So this is locked 51 is Gretchen

[00:39:58] Colin: 41 41 and then 39

[00:40:01] Stephen: is Jake’s. How far away is that? Oh God, hold on, give me, let me pull up

[00:40:06] Ron: the map. I would say 12 miles. I think it goes

[00:40:09] Stephen: No idea. I thought actually locks were put in where they needed it to raise the water.

[00:40:17] Ron: Yeah. I don’t know if it would be along the waterway. I don’t know. According.

[00:40:23] Colin: So according to the map that I have of beaver Creek lock 39, isn’t even part of beaver Creek officially.

[00:40:29] Stephen: Oh, okay. So it’s probably his land.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Folks I think that’s a wrap for the episode.

[00:40:38] Ron: Fun time every week, wrap

[00:40:40] Colin: it all to

[00:40:41] Stephen: bloom with the paranormal wrap. All right, so we’ll cut it here.

[00:40:47] Ron: Alright. See ya.

[00:40:51] Stephen: Okay.

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