Episode 10 – More Experiences


Gina is back with more of her experiences. There are differing thoughts on what these experiences are, and we discuss that.

But are these experiences real? Or only real to the person experiencing them? Does that mean they have a chemical imbalance or a brain tumor – or could it be connected to something our science doesn’t even understand yet?

Besides that – we had an interesting coincidence we talk about.



[00:00:00] Stephen: the second show tonight. And so tomorrow there is a show scheduled to go live. So we’ll have another episode going live and I’ll have these scheduled. I want to try and work on it and have several of them scheduled ahead of time. So they’ll go automatically and I’m going to send out a newsletter.

So if anybody wants to still sign up for the newsletter or pass it along to anyone to sign up that way, we have announcements, Hey, this is going out. And then for tonight we were going to revisit experiences paranormal, ghostly experiences and I think. I know we talked a bit with Gina last time about that.

And I think the rest of us had a little bit, but I thought maybe we could start with her a couple more [00:01:00] of her experiences we could discuss, and then there’s actually something, her and I were just discussing with that the other night, that would probably be a good topic to get some opinions on. So what do you got sweetie?

Hit us with something.

[00:01:11] Gina: So we, this is one story in particular and I don’t think I talked about this one yet. I lived in Alabama during this time and my F was involved in, he was an electrician, so he worked on a lot of tunes and sites and he, they were digging up a site somewhere in Alabama and he brought home a small wooden box.

So when I initially looked at the wind box, I wouldn’t have thought it was. Older or had been around for a while, but he had dug it up on a construction site and brought it home and gave it to the youngest, which is Jason, my 13 year old. And we opened the box and inside of it [00:02:00] was like action figures, but it wasn’t anything modern.

It looked, you could tell they like, they were like solar looking, but not like little green army men, but they were soldier looking and he played with them for a couple of days and just put them up on a shelf kind of. They were would mean, you could tell that they worked not GI Joes.

Huh? They weren’t like anything like that. They were older looking than that. And I’ll have to look through like old toys and that. So in other words of my opinion, isn’t the end of that these toys were making. Somewhere in the 19 hundreds or something is what I think. But anyway, when the box itself and the couple of toys Jason played with just put it up on the shelf and I didn’t think nothing about it.

So I was used to like odd things happening, but, and this is something that we could get Frankie to come in and talk about one day with us, because most of the kids were outside playing and Frankie and I were in the house enjoying the air conditioning unit while the rest of the children played.

And in, we were sitting in a living [00:03:00] room and then my bedroom was to the right of where we were sitting. And we started to hear what sounded like drums, not an entire band, not a bunch of music or something that might’ve been playing from the TV. It sounded like yeah. I was like that’s weird.

Then I knew my TV was out of my bedroom. So I thought that must be something that’s going on in my TV. But I had remembered that SpongeBob was on there because that’s what Jason liked when he was little. And even there was a SpongeBob episode where there was a lot of like rock and roll played.

So I thought, I just assumed that was the episode that was on TV. But I kept hearing it. I kept hearing it. And I think the thing that stuck out the biggest in my mind was Frankie sitting next to me and watching his like face come around and like him looking at me and his eyes were huge. And he was looking at me and looking towards the bedroom, looking at me and he’s mom, do you hear that?

And I said, I do Frankie, do you hear that? And he’s [00:04:00] it sounds like there’s a bunch of drummers in the bedroom and to, to us, I, and I went and I looked it up after a time when it was all said and done. And it sounds like. It would be the w uh, March of like soldiers going into a battle, not a like death March or anything like that, but like old, tiny drum playing.

And it went on in my bedroom for probably a solid five or six minutes before it actually finally stopped Frankie. And I were the only two that heard it. I did some investigating I on my own, nobody else helped me out. And basically what I came up with was that the possibility that these, this was a time capsule from maybe a child back in the day, I don’t know.

But all I knew was is that I needed to put it back in the box, seal it back up. And it, I w I should have taken it back to the site where it was originally dug up at, but why didn’t do that? I had wound up taking it into the [00:05:00] Woodline where we live. And burying it back from the ground. I didn’t have no what’s the word I’m looking for?

There was no direction. I just basically did what I felt was right by burying the box back in the ground, sayings, very I’m sorry, whoever we disturbed, whatever we disturbed, I need you to go back to where you came from. Because I didn’t want, I didn’t want any bad evil Juju spirits for whatever.

I didn’t want to, bring anything into the house that was going to hurt anybody. So that was probably one of the biggest experiences that made me feel validated because somebody else was there with me and heard what I heard. And that was how old is Jason 13? So it was probably about 10 years ago that happened.

[00:05:47] Stephen: The couple of things I find interesting about that is number one, two people heard that. And number two, if it was a SpongeBob cartoon, there’s no way it would go on for five minutes. And even if it was like the radio, [00:06:00] you would have heard music, other music, not just the drums.

[00:06:03] Gina: And Frankie, sorry to interrupt Frankie.

We both actually walked towards the kitchen and then we both did that, like scary Scooby-Doo look around the corner in the bedroom and nothing was there. And then we looked at the TV. It wasn’t the episode that like episode where there was a lot of music and rock beds. It was one of the ones where any, it wasn’t a musical one.

It was one of the ones where SpongeBob was I’m ready or whatever. So we knew it wasn’t SpongeBob is what I’m saying. So

[00:06:33] Ron: the cool thing about this though, tune like Steven’s done. One of the reasons why I think experiencers don’t share. There are stories is because it is so personal, but whenever you have somebody to be there to quantify it and to qualify it, that makes a difference.

And I think that is one of the reasons why people are apprehensive about coming forward is because they just don’t feel that anybody’s going to believe them. But at least in this case, you have somebody there to verify that you were actually [00:07:00] hearing something.

[00:07:03] Gina: Yeah, it was pretty intense.

I know it was the way that the I felt like at any moment we were going to see a procession come out of my bedroom because it felt like it was getting closer and that, there was more than one person drumming. It obviously, again, we never seen anybody and I just don’t know if I ever get a chance to.

Look up or show you what they look like to draw pictures of it. I will do

[00:07:30] Stephen: that, but we could do that for when the episode goes live.

[00:07:33] Ron: Yeah, that’d be great. Did you feel fear to you and your son feel fear or was it not that kind of emotion? Was it something different?

[00:07:42] Gina: No, neither. Neither of us felt fear.

I feel like with any person who’s experienced anything, it’s always gonna, it’s always gonna make me jumpy. As many times as anything’s ever happened to me, I’ve still been like, it surprises you, you don’t expect [00:08:00] it. And then that happens. But th there was no feeling of like maliciousness or fear.

It just, it felt like, there was something in our house letting us know that it was there.

[00:08:11] Ron: Yes it is. And whenever you put the object back, you had no other kind of residual things happen.

[00:08:16] Gina: So it was a couple of days before I put the little like point soldiers or whatever, back in the box, because two days after the drumming I heard rustling in the kitchen and when I came into the kitchen expecting to hear one of the kids rampaging through the refrigerator, a cupboard, I walked into the refrigerator door being open and several there was a jar of like ketchup on the ground or the bottle of ketchup.

And then there was like a jar of mayonnaise, so I talked it up to okay, we, my ex had maybe dug up something and brought and, people who were at rest were no longer at rest. And I don’t know, maybe whoever we brought into the house, they were hungry. They didn’t know where they were at anymore.

Maybe they felt [00:09:00] like they woke up from a long nap or something. I don’t know. And they were in the kitchen looking for. I went around the house and I looked to make sure that everybody was in bed and nobody was awake, which it seemed that way. Obviously a kid could have gotten up and gotten something out of the refrigerator and not shut it properly, but it was the noise.

I heard that somebody was rustling around in there and I just slapped myself. I said, okay, put the things back in the refrigerator. I’m like, you’re probably hungry, but you’re really not going to be able to eat. So just stay out of the refrigerator. We don’t want to waste electricity. I put everything away and shut it.

And then a couple of days after that, it was when I had decided to put the like little toys back in the box and I did, I took it into the woods and Frankie didn’t come with me, but basically just buried in the ground, told, I don’t know who you are. I don’t know if you were, if this was a little boy or a little girl’s box of toys, if there was something.

You know that maybe somebody went off to war and this was [00:10:00] his toys before he had to go off to war. I didn’t know who it was. I just tried to cover the basis and say, everything’s okay go back to rest, go back to where you came from. You don’t need to be here and it stopped after that.


[00:10:16] Stephen: Colin, do you have, or know of any other stories of similar reports?

[00:10:21] Colin: Yeah. Spirits being tied to objects has, is like a common trope in ghost stories of every culture I’m familiar with. At least that has ghost stories. So yes. I think there is something to be said. The value that individuals put on their stuff.

And then the value that other individuals later put on old stuff that they find. And there’s a lot of power culturally with old things, especially old things that clearly were precious to someone at some time. [00:11:00] I just, I feel like that’s

[00:11:01] Stephen: worth bringing up at these. So what you’re saying is my father is going to haunt the oil cans.

No, probably all the

[00:11:10] Colin: wire that he’s

[00:11:11] Stephen: got the wood products. We’re just going to give them all away. So I got a thought and this isn’t even a complete thought or even a theory, and it’s not explaining it. It’s just something to ponder in our. And I bring this up at times, our physics world, especially the modern physics.

They’re discovering more and more how time factors into some of this. So I wa I wonder if there, if the noise, the sound was actually playing at the right time for the people that were experiencing it, meaning the soldiers, what we would think of a hundred, 200 years ago, but for them at that same location at that time, it [00:12:00] was happening right then.

And I wonder if there was some loop or, connection between the times. And it’s something we don’t understand yet about how time operates.

[00:12:10] Ron: I like the idea now, because this was in a box and. It seems as though these toys, and sometimes whenever you deal with toys, you can have intentions attached to them or animating them in a way.

No, I’ve investigated some areas around my area, where there was a lot of activities in the function and the award. And there have been MVPs have come up with people was whistling, a Yankee doodle dandy the sounds of horses, neighing the sounds of gunshots and things. So those are different.

I think when we deal with a toy, we’re dealing with something a little bit separate than what’s going to now, of course, a child may have them and they’re playing with them with intentions that they’re giving, like you said there’s intentions of battle. There’s the sounds of war that goes on with the playing of them and everything.

But I think that this case that Gina [00:13:00] has brought up is slightly more interesting because it seems as if there was something being played with. Through those points and then you’re just not merely play thing, and Colin said, there are a lot of instances in the case where people have objects and there’s an attachment to them.

Have some OBS have some, for some reason, a beget, whenever we’re dealing with something with a child Southern that was obviously loved and cared for it and played, it seems as if they sometimes can take on a life of their own.

[00:13:31] Stephen: This definitely is probably the writer in me coming out. But w what if it’s some like civil war, revolutionary war spirit that didn’t cross over and latched onto the figures?

Because it may be from their perspective, they couldn’t tell the difference between a lead toy figure and a real body. And they were confused.

[00:13:51] Ron: Or just imagine, people talk about balls all the time, that you have this disembodied spirit roaming out there and you would [00:14:00] naturally want to try to find some sort of vessel for it, and that’s like Colin’s of these are our common trumps. But because they’re common it’s because there is this cultural acceptance, these kinds of things going to happen.

[00:14:13] Stephen: Oh man, sweetie, you need to call your brother and warn them that Lee majors might possess his Steve Austin

[00:14:20] Ron: doll.

That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. That was the holy grow of of action figures. Whenever I was a kid they were a little bit too expensive just for the common person to have. So I think that in my I think I must’ve been in about fourth grade, one of our key. That was what everybody wanted.

And I don’t think there was anybody in my class that had one. I don’t think that there was anybody that had one. So yeah, those were cool. They were, but look at it this way too. This lately, these common things, this might’ve been somebody’s pride and joy, this is, might’ve been something that I kid had wanted for for a while and maybe got her for Christmas or whatever.

And there is a lot of emotions that are tied up in that kind of, especially with kids. [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Stephen: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Or especially with kids or again, real soldiers that were in battle.

[00:15:08] Ron: And so what toys represent are that innocence that’s not been lost in any way. And what we’re represents in a lot of cases is that childhood innocence being stripped away very.

So quantum me going on here, this could have been somebody’s toy. No, he wanted to be a soldier. Then he goes off to whatever Vietnam or whatever, any experiences that kind of world in real life. And that leaves you with, this kind of Visier in your being, you’re a drunk about this kind of stuff, your entire life.

And then you meet with him face to face, and it’s not quite as glorious as you imagined. It might’ve been what happened in this case.

[00:15:54] Stephen: All right. So what else do you have Jadah something else you’re other safe?

[00:15:58] Gina: I can tell I got another one. This [00:16:00] one was and it makes me smile, but it was so I, when I first started working over at the hospital, Geneva.

I was told I was working like six o’clock in the morning until two 30 in the afternoon. So when you got there at five 30 quarter to six to clock in, it was a pretty, skeleton crew, if you will. And my supervisor at the time had told me to go down to where the kitchen was to get a few supplies, to bring back up to the hospital, four to med surge.

When I got, I took the elevator downstairs, I went down there and I could very clearly hear somebody humming rustling around in the kitchen. And I had said out loud, excuse me. I’m from med surge. I’m fairly new. I came down here to get, and I don’t remember XYZ. It was like basically some stuff for a few of the patients that we had on the floor, like some juices, jello, things like that.

And the woman said, oh, [00:17:00] they’re overthinking. She spun around in my mind when she turned, she was wearing what I would describe as an older nurses, like the kind of I don’t know it was a nurse’s uniform, but it was addressed and it was white. And I thought, huh, that’s interesting. We must have a couple older nurses that still work here that were the more traditional looking uniforms.

And I had told her, thank you very much. I grabbed, found what I needed in the refrigerator, a couple of things that were stacked up in containers. And she said, oh, no problem. Anytime, sweetheart. I never seen her face. I never, all I knew is that I could w she was just moving and bustling around very quickly in the kitchen area.

And I got myself. We’ll jump back up to the floor. And I had mentioned that there was a nurse working down in the [00:18:00] like cafeteria, not the cafeteria in the kitchen, behind the cafeteria. And they were like, what are you talking about? And I said, the nurse, they were like, we don’t have any nurse that’s working downstairs in the kitchen.

It’s usually just the kitchen stuff. I was like no, the nurse that’s wearing the more like traditional older nurses uniform. And they were like, oh, we know who you’re talking about. And I’m like, oh, who, what’s your name? They were like, oh, that’s the nurse. That’s been here for 150 years.

And I’m like, I’m sorry, it’s who they said, the nurse, that one of the original nurses that was with the hospital before it was built to what it is now in the original state that it was in, she’s still here. She’s still working again. It took me a couple beats to what do you mean? She’s still working here.

I was like, oh, you mean the nurse? And they were like yes, she has never left. And. I just remember, that whole feeling. And it’s not, I don’t know goosebumps everywhere. Here’s stood up on the back of may now because I realized I encountered somebody who was no longer [00:19:00] living in this plane of existence in this dimension, but was still barely very clearly doing her job and very happy about it.

Humming, just bustling, doing all, whatever she needed to do. And it was it was one of the best experiences that I had in that. And it still gets me like, go in and check that because she was very, I got nothing but good feelings and vibes that this person was still there after all this time, making sure things were going along.

Like they were supposed to be going along. And numerous people had reported her at the house. So it was pretty cool experience. Now, if I can go back and talk to a few people, I probably could get some records. I probably could get her name. I don’t know, but any more off the top of my head, but I did at one point in time, they just called her the, like not the lady in white, the nurse and white basically is what she was called at the hospital.

[00:19:53] Stephen: And again, for this one, but the things that I find intriguing are she knew nothing [00:20:00] about this and just thought it was a normal person, but other people knew about it. Other people have seen it also. So yeah, you could argue that maybe Gina had heard about it. So it influenced her. She saw it, she was tired.

It was early. I’m sure there are people that would argue that. To me again, and I’ve said this before, you have to trust the person and know the person, which is why a lot of the videos online are hard to believe because we don’t know them. We don’t trust them, but if my wife’s. Hey, this is what I saw.

I put a lot more validity into that trust trusting.

[00:20:35] Ron: Yeah. And in my research and, my firsthand experiences, I’ve talked with a lot of people that have dealt with the medical field, and it seems as if that type of person that’s drawn to that particular kind of vocation want to make sure that what is going on there in the relations with patients continues well after they’ve shuffled off their mortal oil, if you [00:21:00] will, they’re still doing it.

I’ve had these experiences not only in hospital settings but also in mental health settings as well too. The other places where you find this kind of stuff, continuing after death is in monasteries were, or a lot of convents as well, too. Th the ghost monk or the ghostly.

But yeah, these are themes that seem to transcend space and time that somebody has taken a vocation on themselves and the art, their care for their fellow man goes beyond this earthly shell there to continues long after death.

[00:21:35] Stephen: And I like how it’s interactive, obviously. Gina saw somebody who was talking to somebody and that somebody was talking back and I’ll bring this back up in a couple of minutes with another topic we were talking about, but I find that interesting,

[00:21:50] Ron: But what I find so interesting about these cases, and again, these are unique cases is almost not entirely 100% of the time, [00:22:00] but most of the time, the people who are interacting with these spirits, the spirits know that this is not their particular.

But they know that there is a time delay that they’ve crossed over, but they’re still there just to make sure things are running smoothly. Jen, I don’t know if you found that in this particular case or not but the people that I’ve spoken to, they know that they have passed on, but they are there simply because this is part of who they are, this is their wife and this is also their death as well that they want to be there to continue on their vocation.

[00:22:36] Gina: Yeah, no I only experienced or encountered her one other time. But other people that had been at the hospital, some of the older people that were volunteers said that’s how they felt that she was, just, she was there to make sure everything was still going. And I did not feel in any way, shape or form this being was very happy about what they were doing.

It was very. [00:23:00] Just being in her element is what I felt like this person really enjoys what they’re doing.

[00:23:05] Ron: And the thing about this is not only the caregiver, but in many instances, the the people that were the patients there also reside after their death as well, because they felt not only at home, but they felt as if they were being cared for Eric continues even after they pass.

[00:23:27] Gina: And I think that a lot of people probably would be surprised to find out. And Ron, you probably may know more about this if you’ve interviewed people at hospitals, but people at hospitals are very not superstitious, but very respectful of that other plane of existence, wherever you may be going well, do you think it’s, you’re going to heaven or you’re moving on to another dimension?

People are very mindful of that in the hospital. They do the things that are necessary to make sure that person’s passing on not only, what they need to do to the person physically, but to make sure that person’s passing on into the [00:24:00] next plane of existence,

[00:24:01] Ron: Yep. That’s an excellent point. I’ve spoken with with nurses before that it’s hard to open up a window now in a hospital putting up doors where they’ve covered up mirrors and I’ve worked with people who were in hospice care and oftentimes they will go into a place that it’s the final hours of a person’s life.

And they will crack a window because that is part of a lot of different cultures that have come to America. Or, like I said, the covering up of the window opening up of the door to allow the spirit, once it leaves the body not to remain earth bound, but the find a release and to get out of that place that was so familiar to them.

[00:24:40] Gina: Yep. Absolutely.

[00:24:42] Ron: I think the word that you use there is a very good one. They’re very respectful. These people are around life and death their entire job. You can imagine these people work, over 40 hours a week. So imagine being in a place for two or three days at a time, and all that you are [00:25:00] responsible for is making sure that a person either is, continues to be alive, or they pass with some sort of.

That is an awesome obligation. And I work in these fields before, but I will tell you, truthfully, I am in no way, I’m cut out for this kind of this kind of life. I will deal with it with with in counseling purposes or in, in just simple care, but there’s no way that I could do the things that these people do one of day in, day out basis.

There’s no way.

[00:25:28] Gina: And then the other thing that comes along with it too, is that the amount of energy that is involved in the person’s life, trying to fight for that person’s life, the person itself, the doctors, the nurses, the family members, and then inevitably, if the person has to, can’t make it in this world and they have to pass on, there is so much bottled up energy in and around that area that, I’m surprised things don’t get more combustible when people pass that.

That’s right.

[00:25:56] Ron: That’s right. That’s right now I’ve dealt with. [00:26:00] Who were very age, this, wasn’t your typical 70, 80 year old enough. I’m talking about people advanced in their nineties. And I remember working with one woman in particular. She was from Italy. She was an immigrant and she had a very difficult life.

She didn’t learn to speak English until she was in grade school. The first time she ever ate slice bread was actually in grade school as well, too. So she had a lot of disease that was with her since she’s been younger, she had a very rare nerve condition. By the end of life, she was deaf and blind as well.

And she knew that she was going to be passing. So what she did is anybody that had wronged her own life. She had brought them into her. And she sat there and she forgave them. No, her husband wasn’t always that kind to her. He cheated on her a lot. He really didn’t have her as a priority. And he brought, she brought him into the room and she forgave him.

It was on her terms. This is [00:27:00] powerful when these kinds of things happen and she refused food and she refused water. So she told death on, on her own terms, she wasn’t going to be she was the one that was responsible for everything on and those kinds of things. So whenever we think about ghosts and we think about, sadness that surrounds that sometimes death can be met on, was such courage and such conviction, that there is a heroism to it.

There, it’s a very heroic next step into whatever the universe has for you. And those kinds of things. I don’t think that we talk about hauntings or people remaining on this plane. That’s not for them. They’ve resolved everything that’s happened here on this plane. So they are the ones that, move on or whatever kind of words we want to use for.

But it’s for those people, I think, especially in traditional hauntings that have unfinished business left to do, and that’s the reason why they become urban, or as we [00:28:00] talked about before that they still have a mission here on earth to make sure other people were being cared for as well.

[00:28:04] Gina: Absolutely.

And then the other thing that I have personally seen in healthcare, and this is something that, again, I’m sure everybody, community people or science, doctors, believers, nonbelievers are probably, divided on is when you approach that end of life. And I’ve seen this personally with patients and family members where they start to see people, they start to.

I think that, they see people waiting for them who have already crossed over, they see their mother or perhaps a child or their dog from when they were a child is sitting at the end of the bed, waiting for them. I’ve seen that so many times in my life. And again, that’s a, some, scientifically speaking, it’s the brain trying to prepare itself because you’re going to pass away or is it, grandma combat to make sure you can get over to the other side.

Is it, is fluffy sub suddenly there to play ball with you again, I’ve seen it time and time again, working in the hospitals. Yeah.

[00:28:59] Ron: [00:29:00] That’s about it. And I spoke to a psychologist about this before and they have a great term it’s called wish fulfillment. This is what they want to imagine, but sometimes it’s so visceral that how this personal experiences, personal experience weigh so much on you as the observer.

That’s my thing. It’s not personal anymore. It’s actually affecting the energy in the room and it become buddy’s experience. It’s just not that one person’s experience. I’ve seen that happen as well, too. I can not shrug it off as simple wish fulfillment. There is something that goes on at the end of life, in the majority of the cases that simply cannot be explained a way through regular psychological terms.

It just doesn’t happen though.

[00:29:45] Stephen: W Y why can’t it be both and, maybe your brain is preparing, but it’s trying to move to another phase in us. Something we can’t ask the know about yet. I’m just throwing that out. That’s how my that’s how I think my [00:30:00] perspective and could be both

[00:30:03] Ron: right.

But up until the age of the enlightenment, it always was. And then we through religion and we through these kind of, superstitious, archaic belief systems out. And we said that doesn’t happen anymore. This is not how the human functions anymore. We are, we are now mathematically program, we don’t want to believe that there are things out there that we cannot understand because part of who we are as human beings is believing that we have the capability of understanding everything.

And whenever things don’t make any sense, we don’t like that. I do, we, as a collective group, it doesn’t like that. The idea that we are evolving in kind of the wrong direction has really been, it’s been something that I’ve been looking at now for a while. Whenever I was a kid, everybody wants to church, everybody knew their neighbors.

And now the third fastest growing belief in the world is atheism because we [00:31:00] don’t want to believe in this kind of stuff anymore, because there’s a responsibility that comes with it as well. But also the idea that this is all white, quaint, it’s what rustic people do.

We don’t need this kind of stuff anymore. And what I find out in a world that is moving more and more away from religions is that we still cannot explain these kinds of near death experiences or these people that have come back or we’re the realm of ghosts and hauntings. It’s all very difficult to explain a way to people that automatically say we have no soul and there is nothing else out there.

There is this kind of warfare that goes on. And it’s not readily explainable to people. Go ahead and call

[00:31:43] Colin: them. Okay.

[00:31:48] Stephen: The atheist,

[00:31:49] Colin: the person who says, I don’t believe you when you make the claim of ghosts or you make the claim of religion is not the one that has to explain it away. The burden of proof is on the [00:32:00] person making the claim, the person saying these things. So what I am saying here is the position of proof is on you guys, not on

[00:32:09] Stephen: me

[00:32:09] Ron: as an atheist, right?

But see, the thing is the we’re not looking for anybody to prove what we know instinctually, what we experienced. It’s the atheist. I’m not saying you or it’s the people that are relying on science doesn’t will attack us for having these kinds of experiences and talking about these kinds of experiences.

That’s the problem. Gina’s had enough experiences. I’ve had enough experiences to say, I don’t need anybody to validate this for me, I’m with it. But there are people out there that are looking for answers and they turn to people and they say, We know this know, we talked about this on a show earlier.

You’re not supposed to see these things. You’re not supposed to hear these things so grow up or we’re shake out of it, that kind of a thing. And that’s what people were being told nowadays. There’s not any kind of comfort there anymore. It’s a very [00:33:00] cold, hard world, I think.

And I don’t like the way we’re trending as the human rights. And

[00:33:06] Stephen: unfortunately, I don’t think anything. I don’t think there’s a single conference convention. We can go to a single person. That’s written a book. We could talk to a single, other supernatural paranormal podcast or show we can watch that proves anything.

Exactly. That’s the thing, but people still have some belief in it. And there is, for me, there’s still something to have belief in there. There needs to be. More wonderment with the world again. And I know this is and I know the argument. If you don’t believe in magic, then you won’t see magic.

And I know the counter argument is if you believe in magic, then all you’re ever go do is see magic when it doesn’t really exist. I understand that. But I, and I will hold this line that I think some of these things can be proven, just not with our current state of [00:34:00] science or our current state of technology or our current state of where we exist in the cosmos or however you want to do it.

But at some point I believe that it will be proven in some way, maybe not the way we’re thinking now and maybe something completely different that we can’t even imagine right now. But I think these things all at some point.

[00:34:23] Ron: I like that point. I like that point. And then if we are able to prove these things in a very scientific way that kind of then shatters a lot of who we are.

Doesn’t. If we can prove that there is something out there past life, some there’s something out there or, it’s hard for me to conceptualize, even though I’m a religious person and I am a person that’s very open to these kinds of things, look at the world without wonderment that you talked about.

But if science then starts saying that, yeah. What you’re talking about does have a basis in reality, that kind of shatters things. I [00:35:00] think for me a little bit, because it’s one of those things that’s so personal to me then I really don’t want anybody to

[00:35:06] Stephen: and that’s one of the things, oh, sorry, go ahead, Gina.

[00:35:09] Gina: No and just to jump in on a couple of things there for me personally, and I’ve been on the receiving end of this in being an atheist is not a problem to me. I wholeheartedly think that’s, I myself at times question God, a God, that God, I do because of the things that’s happened in my life.

But at the same time, I’m like one of those, like my biggest problem with anything for anybody is I have my beliefs. You have your beliefs. We can both agree that we each have our beliefs. And that should be enough. I, Ron, you touched on it. I don’t need anybody to. Tell me, or I don’t need proof.

I don’t need that like validation anymore that this is real, or this has happened to me, or I believe in ghosts or [00:36:00] interdimensional beings or quantum physics and travel because I know what I know to be true. I instinctually, I feel it. And I know it and I don’t need anybody to prove anything to me in the entire universe of the world.

I’m looking for it because my hope is that me doing this? We’re talking to anybody else in the world is to let other people know you, you aren’t alone in the way that you feel. You’re not going crazy. You don’t, you may have actually seen what you seen. And then if you, if it, if you didn’t see it, then let’s help you figure it out.

There’s just I really want to help other people understand that what they’re going through does not necessarily. I mean that they’re going crazy or they’re faking it, that what they seen could possibly have actually happened.

[00:36:47] Ron: And let’s see, that’s a good point too. If we would’ve found this radio show a couple of hundred years ago, which would have been a radio show, but if we were sending out in the public square talking about this stuff, we couldn’t have been killed for this.

That’s come a [00:37:00] long way,

[00:37:00] Stephen: I’m faster than you guys. So that’s it just as a reminder to us for, but also to people listening, that was one of our goals with doing this. We weren’t setting out to. Lb our beliefs into people. This is what you should believe. And we weren’t setting out to say, we’re going to prove any of it exists.

We’re going to prove ghosts. We’re going to PR that wasn’t our goal. Our goal was to explore every one of these topics and things from four different viewpoints. And without necessarily judging each of the different viewpoints, having those, we could discuss it. We can say, here’s why I don’t believe that.

And why you believe this or whatever. And for me, I love hearing both sides just about everything. I changed my mind at times because I hear a good argument that I’m like, oh, I can see that. There’s a lot of times I’ll even devil’s advocate myself, I’ll say, and I’ll go both sides.

But let me just say, I think we should [00:38:00] dictate now for all future references. We don’t use God. We use Chuck. We need to say Chuck,

[00:38:08] Ron: what happens? The woman

[00:38:11] Stephen: Chuck yet.

Yeah. Okay. So the other night, Jean and I were talking about, oh, go ahead. I had one last

[00:38:21] Colin: thing I wanted to say. See my goal with the show may not be necessarily to figure this stuff out, but my goal being involved with the unexplained is to find solutions. And 99 times out of a hundred, the solution is either going to be something known to science, or I don’t know because I’m not a scientist myself.

[00:38:45] Stephen: Where

[00:38:45] Colin: I draw the line with belief is I’m Matt Dillahunty says this all the time. And I like it. I want to believe as many true things and as many false and as few false things as possible, [00:39:00] and specifically where it comes to, what is demonstrably true? So I, that, that’s really where I draw the line.

I have not found any demonstrable evidence for God or ghosts or anything to make me buy into it at all. And

[00:39:16] Stephen: That’s where I am and that’s fine. And that’s why we keep you around besides having glorious hair. It’s because to keep us honest, so we don’t go too far off the rails that while we believe it, so it must be true, but we still have our beliefs based on our own what’s happened to us.

I will, 100% tell you there is something. Because of several experiences I’ve had in my life. And Gina’s the same way, she’s experienced things. So there is something, can we say what it is? No, but we can say what we think it is based on our beliefs, in what we’ve experienced. And I don’t begrudge you at all.

Colin I liked hearing the arguments. So Gina bring in fact Colin, this next part is like the exact opposite of everything we’ve been talking about for the past [00:40:00] 45 minutes. And Jean and I were discussing this the other night in regards to experiencing things. So Jenny, you want to bring up the topic of what we were talking about with the medicine,

[00:40:11] Gina: right?

So I am governed by my emotions and I often wish I could go back to my 19 year old self and say you don’t have to be such a spasm. You don’t have to let your emotions rule everything that you do, but it defines it defined who I am, but that’s who I am. But as I got older, I started to realize that I was not reigning in my special kind of crazy let’s say, and I was taking on too much on my shoulders of everybody else’s burdens.

And I finally realized that I needed some help. And my provider, so graciously decided to start me on a medication called Cymbalta. My [00:41:00] anxiety was at like Def con four, and I was covered in hives all the time. I was constantly like prickly and itchy. And she said, this is what you need. You’re just your anxiety is, too much.

What I discovered in when I started to take the Cymbalta, which has been fairly recently, is that. For me, it drowned it out. I think what has made me who I am. I think all of the I told Steven the other night was this simply saying, since I started taking Cymbalta, a lot of the paranormal things as you would, or magical or whatever word you want to use, doesn’t seem to happen to me as much.

I have to see, I feel like I have to concentrate a little bit harder to hear them, whereas before they were flooding me, like incredibly bad. [00:42:00] So what does that mean? What does that say is the medication blocking that part of my brain that opened that world to me, that paranormal world, that a magical world, whatever you want to call it.

Or was this medication now blocking a part of my brain that just thinks that way. Does that make sense? And what I’m saying is that the medication that’s cut off here on normal, or is it the medication that shut off what I thought or what I think is paranormal? Does that make sense?

[00:42:32] Ron: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that’s a great point.

Again, that goes back to the whole, Stephen Collins argument as well. Ah, and see, I, again, playing devil’s advocate. So we can say that the human being is the one that projects, the paranormal out into the world that are, everything is normal. We just perceive it as being extra ordinary or supernatural.

That’s us doing that. And that the medication blocked off that that impulse to look [00:43:00] at it that way or on the same line, Do you have to be open to these things in order to recognize them as being their normal and the medication shuts that part out because it won’t allow you to look at it from that perspective.

[00:43:16] Gina: Right?

[00:43:16] Colin: Example, a assumes that the paranormal exists, which is as much as you guys buy, I don’t want to say buy into it, but believe has not been demonstrably proven option B pretty much falls along known science. So option B

[00:43:38] Stephen: as a lower burden of proof, then,

[00:43:40] Colin: Option a to the point where, because we know things like that happen with medication.

So your brain chemistry changes and you experience things differently than you did previously.

[00:43:54] Stephen: I would argue

[00:43:56] Colin: that is the most

[00:43:57] Stephen: likely explanation. And [00:44:00] we even said that when her and I were talking the other, but

[00:44:05] Gina: the other thing that I wanted to throw in there too, is go into some of our weekends that we have in the past.

I got to meet a gentleman. I’ll just his first name is bill. Him and I made a really big conduct connection a couple years back. And at that particular point in time, I was not on Cymbalta or any other medication to help with anxiety, but he taught me basically in his terms was to have a shield myself because I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak.

And my emotions again are out there. That’s what I’m in tune with. Was basically literally to learn how to raise my shields in defense of myself, against other people, to like physically actually picture shields going up around me to keep that at bay, to keep that out. That’s something else that he taught me in a couple of weekends that we spent together in Pittsburgh or wherever that other one was.

[00:45:00] And that something that I still actually practice to this day too, is to literally, again, picture a bubble around me, a shield, because I don’t want, not only that paranormal, that magical that whatever in everyday life, people at work, stuff that happens at home, I have to shield it sometimes and protect myself against it because otherwise I think I will explode.

So that’s also goes along with that too, in that same sense,

[00:45:35] Stephen: as a quick aside with. We should try and talk to him about being a guest and talk about Reiki. He does Reiki. That would probably be an interesting topic that I don’t think may people have explored. But yeah, that was our, that’s basically what she and I talked about inside and I said right away, exactly what Colin said, you’ve got a paranormal exists and it’s blocking you being able to see it because you had a part of you that was tuned into it or B it doesn’t exist.

[00:46:00] And it’s always been hallucinations are only in your mind, which honestly, to

[00:46:05] Colin: me, he doesn’t even assume that it doesn’t exist. It all it argues is that what is causing what Gina is experiencing is not paranormal.

[00:46:14] Stephen: So

[00:46:14] Colin: you can believe in the paranormal and go with B as the option anyway. Okay.


[00:46:18] Stephen: not mutually exclusive. But what I was going to say about seeing things we know that. Our brains are what, see things and our brains filter things. And and Collin has said before, if like for me, I love BMW and I had a BMW. So I see a whole lot of BMWs on the road, but people, I may drive the same route, but I have the same in the same car with me.

We may get done with the trip and they’ll say I didn’t see a single BMW. There must not be as many around. So you’re what you’re focusing on. Things based on what you want, but also if you ask any cop about any crime scene and they interview five people, [00:47:00] and they’ll say all five of them told me the truth and I got five different stories because we do remember things differently.

So still maybe it isn’t paranormal stuff, but it’s, to me, what is it then? What is Gina experiencing and how does this medicine affect it? I would be just as interested in finding out. How the medicine has changed things, if we could get her blood chemistry from five years ago, if we get her blood chemistry from when she was 20 and we could get I don’t know, some of those bank men tests that he did in Ghostbusters, you know what I’m saying to me, whether it’s paranormal, not paranormal saying she saw paranormal or not saw paranormal, or just saw Lucy to me, I would be just as interested to find out how the medicine did affect what she was experiencing seen, and, in whatever.

[00:47:49] Ron: And how that part interprets the world around you. This is all word.

[00:47:53] Stephen: Yeah. It’s, again, that could be the argument. Maybe paranormal doesn’t exist, but it may be just our [00:48:00] interpretation of what’s around us. And we’ve seen some videos, we’ve heard stories of little kids that see things that others don’t.

So everyone dismisses it as well. They’re a little kid, they have an imaginary friend. What if that imaginary friend is a real friend that I can’t see? That’s a question that keeps it interesting if nothing else.

[00:48:22] Ron: Yeah. The human mind is one of these great cases that I really would like to explore more and more.

You can also argue that there’s something in the child’s mind that is not fully developed. And then one of her becomes fully developed. It cuts off that access to that. It’s

[00:48:37] Stephen: fascinating. Is it society that trains them to see different.

[00:48:43] Ron: It’s indoctrinated to become atrophied.

[00:48:45] Stephen: Yes. That’s an argument that, maybe could be which again, I think this would be a dangerous experiment mostly for me, but it’d be interesting as Jean have quit taking the Cymbalta for about six months to see what would happen, but I’d probably need to live with [00:49:00] you for a while, right?

[00:49:01] Ron: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Why we’ll tell you what to be, but before we get off here I was teaching a class of 20 kids and I, we were listening to music. We were talking about the outside. We were talking about just nature. Okay. About being in nature. The class assignment was we were going to go out and be in nature.

We were going to sit there and just listen to the world around us. Okay. So we took the crayons and we took their paper with them. We went out and we just sat there and listened. And the assignment was to draw a picture of what. Out of 20 children, 18 children drew a figure with a large, had these kind of blue shape you, these blue round eyes and everything like that.

And as I trace it and I look at it, I can find comparative images and other cultures throughout the world. So again, you have to ask yourself, is this part of the human [00:50:00] understanding, the human mind? Are we creating this or is there indeed something out there that we used to be able to perceive, but now we stopped allowing us to see that kind of

[00:50:10] Stephen: that’s interesting.

Did they explain what they were drawing? What they saw. They

[00:50:14] Ron: well, I’ll tell you what. So these children between the ages of four and six, so these were young little kids. And basically what they were doing is they were personifying what they insane. They like making nature into this kind of figure.

And that might be something that’s very natural for kids to do. But what I found, so utterly unique is they were drawing the same. Now of course, kids at this age are not wanting to have their, their repertoire of drawing all these guys

[00:50:42] Stephen: up. They draw like me. Exactly.

[00:50:44] Ron: That’s right. That’s right. But but it was odd to think that they, that 18 out of 20 kids drew a similar figure without them looking off of each other’s paper or anything like that run.

That’s what they saw the natural world. The be what color are your eyes? My eyes are [00:51:00] Hazel. Okay. Yeah, no, I can see what your point is as well. But yeah I will tell you though, one of these children that, that drew this, we also read the book entitled what snow men do at night. I don’t know if any of you have the pleasure of reading this, but it’s basically these kids draw a snow or they they build a snowman and they make up what happens at night.

So the book covers that they’re, going roller skating or ice skating. And what have you. So part of the assignment was we read this book and we said, okay, now I want you to draw pictures of what your snow men does at night. And this little kid brought up his his paper. And I said, so what is your snowman doing?

And he said, he’s driving around in a van looking for children.

[00:51:44] Stephen: He’s got candy eyes he’s given out. So kids can’t and

[00:51:49] Ron: be very imaginative as well too. But I just thought that was a unique thing. And I was very happy that these parents allow me to experiment on their children for a day in the [00:52:00] spring.

That’s right. That’s right. That’s

[00:52:02] Stephen: another topic we should talk. That’s right. That’s right. All right. Hey before we go, cause this was a great talk. You probably saw some more stories to tell at some time on sweetie.

Okay. So before we go we have an interesting set of coincidences that happened to us yesterday. And I know these things happen mathematically. They’re going to happen, but this one just really stuck out, stood out to us yesterday. So yesterday morning we watched Loki the second episode and one of the songs and it was holding out for a hero.

Remember that from the eighties. And then Gina and I went to her father and she was, and he was watching a British TV show called strike back. Am I six agents and stuff? And the episode we watched had holding out for a hero in it as the songs then for her birthday, I took her out to see the Hitman’s wife bodyguard.

And guess what song was in that [00:53:00] movie? Now I looked at her, I said, are you kidding me? Then we come home and call-ins all excited and shows us the trailer for the He-Man cartoon coming out. And that song is holding out for a hero four times in one day, we heard that song. Now I know it all. He says because you’re paying attention to it, but this like just jumped out.

[00:53:21] Ron: It’s an old song. Yeah. Yeah. And Gina, you actually got to spend the end of your day with your hero. How about that?

[00:53:29] Stephen: Steven? I fell asleep early. What’s going on? I know

[00:53:38] Colin: what they might have been playing it because her birthday Bonnie Tyler’s birthday was in the last week. So at least on the radio, they might’ve been playing it a bit more

[00:53:46] Stephen: often.

We didn’t hear it on the radio. Oh, I thought you said on the radio and I even had the eighties station on, you know what I mean?

[00:53:56] Ron: Yeah. Speaking of that though, total eclipse of the heart, we remember [00:54:00] that song, right? Remember that was about, that was supposed to be a song in a play about vampires that never came to pass. Yeah. So whenever we talk about the paranormal in arts and literature pick for this wouldn’t be good.

[00:54:16] Stephen: That’s going to be an upcoming episode.

Colin’s got a lot of good comic book stuff, and I actually was thinking of doing a talk about the supernatural and paranormal in literature through the ages. That’d be an interesting fun

[00:54:28] Ron: ball. It would.

[00:54:29] Stephen: It would. All right, folks. I think we’re good. Awesome guys. I have you later. I’m holding onto her.

I need a good hat to be a good hero. Ron.

[00:54:49] Colin: I don’t know if you saw, but I said you should have told the IRS you work for the, and I did see

[00:54:54] Ron: that. I didn’t see that. I should have told them that. Yeah, I should. I can’t disclose any of my financial [00:55:00] information because I work with a men .

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